Curse

Age · Oct 05, 2007, 11:06 PM // 23:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by dont feel no pain

I think you mean you want gw2 to be more balanced than gw1, probably more balanced, but it'll never perfect.

I believe they will get it right this time for GW2 as it is unforunate for us in GW.

lutz · Oct 05, 2007, 11:14 PM // 23:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fitz Rinley

My political position is so much more complicated than the elementary text book crap you quote as to leave it behind. The age of the Robber Barrons fell to the 4th political realignment for a reason - it rellied too heavily on simplistic ideas of the march of history to the drum of Social Darwinism. That is the underpinning of and flaw of your entire argument. Social Darwinism fails because effectiveness is rarely passed from generation to generation in a meaningful form, and the efficiencies established in the lore of one generation are useless to the emergencies of the next.

I do not sound "sophisticated" because I am a liar. I express what immediately comes to mind, and only that which is natural to my experience. You do not see false colored thinking in my penmanship.

You are historically inaccurate to say that capitalism and capitalization have endured over the centuries, for together in their present form they are young only. And in previous occurences, separate from one another while other venues ruled or policies of religion and state altered, they have not existed in their current form. But as to the idea the effort and time are one and the same you should look to the origin of money in the West Coast of Africa. Where people originated currency as a way of appeasing that part of another's time/soul that went into an object during its making. For their word for time and soul is the same. And they treat religiously the ideal that one's effort/labor imparts into the product a portion of one's time/soul. And so the receiver of that product must make a payment/sacrifice to it in order to avoid being cursed.

The problem for impoverishment in the second world nations is one of perception of obligation. Any system will work if the people in it will make it work. The military system is a communistic system by nature, and one that is dictatorial. Community over emphasized leads to the quelling of individual initiative. It must be the obligation of the individuals to counter-balance that in their own daily effort, because the systemic energy is once sided. The West, and specifically my nation - the United States, has emphasized individuality and anti-community rhetoric to the point of nearly decimating all community and creating a base anti-society society (hence the Libertarian Movement as its fullest expression). Only by making up the difference, and people working at being neighbors, in neighborhoods, in the social structures which are inate to our species, can that imbalance be dealt with and energies not arise which will result in the end of my nation. That one should put forth effort to attain merrit is not new, and in fact is a common characteristic shared by our cousins Pan trog. We have not questioned that merit be a factor in attainment, but that those who seek extra-ordinary risk for the sake of extra-ordinary risk then undermine the value of their action by seeking rewards setting themselves apart from - and superior in soul to, their fellows. If the action is not suficient to the merit then bribery does not make it justified.

Idealism < Common sense.

Greater work = Greater reward
Less work = Less reward

Again, you are reiterating communism.
I have no argument. Common sense is part of the innate and universal caldera of knowledge, the "gifts of birth". I'm simply appealing to the rational thinking that's probably stowed away somewhere in you covered by deceits, lies, and misinformation.

Kahlindra · Oct 05, 2007, 11:21 PM // 23:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fitz Rinley

And ofcourse now, if it is not a Destroyer weapon then it means nothing. And there isn't a single Destroyer weapon I find entertaining for any reason other than to put it in the HoM and then hope I can throw it away so I can have space in my inventory.

I'm just so curious as to whom these values belong to- why are destroyer weps the only things that matter? Do you simply mean by game logic, i.e. they are the most 'elite' thing because you can display them in HoM? If you don't find them entertaining, and a large part of the player base doesn't either, then why do they obliterate the meaning of every other possession? I think they look pretty stupid, so I'm not going to fuss over them. Other people really like them. Good for them.

I'm trying to discover why the game is completely unenjoyable without something that the game or the market defines as desirable.... Your point about wanting a sickle makes sense, but this point seems arbitrary.

CyberNigma · Oct 05, 2007, 11:28 PM // 23:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by lutz

Idealism < Common sense.

Greater work = Greater reward
Less work = Less reward

I'm not picking a side here but that's wrong. In the real world smarter work, not greater pays off. There are many people that work very hard for minimum wage whereas some guy that's gets lucky or plays it smart makes a ton of money.

Bowstring Badass · Oct 05, 2007, 11:53 PM // 23:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darksun

Sorry, but there are WAY too many max collectors/merch items to say that you "need" a 100k item.

Agreed stupid people not crafting the dwarven axe in eotn because "IT ISNT A GOLD ITEM"...

Cale Roughstar · Oct 06, 2007, 12:02 AM // 00:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fitz Rinley

My political position is so much more complicated than the elementary text book crap you quote as to leave it behind. The age of the Robber Barrons fell to the 4th political realignment for a reason - it rellied too heavily on simplistic ideas of the march of history to the drum of Social Darwinism. That is the underpinning of and flaw of your entire argument. Social Darwinism fails because effectiveness is rarely passed from generation to generation in a meaningful form, and the efficiencies established in the lore of one generation are useless to the emergencies of the next.

I do not sound "sophisticated" because I am a liar. I express what immediately comes to mind, and only that which is natural to my experience. You do not see false colored thinking in my penmanship.

You are historically inaccurate to say that capitalism and capitalization have endured over the centuries, for together in their present form they are young only. And in previous occurences, separate from one another while other venues ruled or policies of religion and state altered, they have not existed in their current form. But as to the idea the effort and time are one and the same you should look to the origin of money in the West Coast of Africa. Where people originated currency as a way of appeasing that part of another's time/soul that went into an object during its making. For their word for time and soul is the same. And they treat religiously the ideal that one's effort/labor imparts into the product a portion of one's time/soul. And so the receiver of that product must make a payment/sacrifice to it in order to avoid being cursed.

The problem for impoverishment in the second world nations is one of perception of obligation. Any system will work if the people in it will make it work. The military system is a communistic system by nature, and one that is dictatorial. Community over emphasized leads to the quelling of individual initiative. It must be the obligation of the individuals to counter-balance that in their own daily effort, because the systemic energy is once sided. The West, and specifically my nation - the United States, has emphasized individuality and anti-community rhetoric to the point of nearly decimating all community and creating a base anti-society society (hence the Libertarian Movement as its fullest expression). Only by making up the difference, and people working at being neighbors, in neighborhoods, in the social structures which are inate to our species, can that imbalance be dealt with and energies not arise which will result in the end of my nation. That one should put forth effort to attain merrit is not new, and in fact is a common characteristic shared by our cousins Pan trog. We have not questioned that merit be a factor in attainment, but that those who seek extra-ordinary risk for the sake of extra-ordinary risk then undermine the value of their action by seeking rewards setting themselves apart from - and superior in soul to, their fellows. If the action is not suficient to the merit then bribery does not make it justified.

HOLD ON!! When did this thread switch from QQ'ing about bad drops to the merits/problems with communism?!?! I MEAN GROW UP please... it seems that this thread has gotten just a little bit off track.

Anyways, you have over 3500 hours of play time... YOU ARE NOT A CASUAL GAMER. Please do not try and hide behind the "casual" status to claim that the game is biased against you. I am not even over 1000 hours and I like to think that I am more than casual. I have had about the same luck with drops as you have (which is to say... nada) and I simply go out and play more until I get the money that I need to buy the things that I want. I still have Droks armour on my main char. I have all three campaigns and EotN, and more than enough to purchase a set of 15k armour for myself, but I do not because I like to hoarde money

Again, functionality is for the casual gamer, rare skins are for the hardcore gamer.

I also disagree with the thoery that to farm is to be hardcore. When people say this, they are going from one extreme (casual) to the other (hardcore), with nothing in between. Farming is done for many reasons. Some people do it for money, and some do it for a challenge, and some do it because it is fun. The person who farms 20 minutes a day will never be a hardcore player in my eyes. If you detest farming and wouldn't be caught dead doing it, then rare skin weapons are not for you!

Also, as to the whole communism thing, to make a communitic MMO would be ummm, shall we say silly? Seriously, if we all had pheonixes, full obsidian armour, req 7 15^50 crystallines and Mini Pandas, would it really be that special? Communism is stated as the ideal society, but it always falls to human greed, and human greed is evident in spades in online games ( it wouldnt be fun to simply go through the story lines over and over again imho.) So I suggest that if what you are looking for is a game where you will never have to go the extra mile to get that leet-juice weapon, try Titan Quest, there is no shortage of gold in that game. For me, the staying power for GW (and all other RPG's for that mater) come from the thought of making your character(s) the best that they can be.

CALE

P.S. for anyone enjoying the political side of this thread, I suggest Atlas Shrugged, by Ayn Rand. Great book about Objectivism/Egoism

angmar_nite · Oct 06, 2007, 12:06 AM // 00:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fitz Rinley

My political position is so much more complicated than the elementary text book crap you quote as to leave it behind. The age of the Robber Barrons fell to the 4th political realignment for a reason - it rellied too heavily on simplistic ideas of the march of history to the drum of Social Darwinism. That is the underpinning of and flaw of your entire argument. Social Darwinism fails because effectiveness is rarely passed from generation to generation in a meaningful form, and the efficiencies established in the lore of one generation are useless to the emergencies of the next.

I do not sound "sophisticated" because I am a liar. I express what immediately comes to mind, and only that which is natural to my experience. You do not see false colored thinking in my penmanship.

You are historically inaccurate to say that capitalism and capitalization have endured over the centuries, for together in their present form they are young only. And in previous occurences, separate from one another while other venues ruled or policies of religion and state altered, they have not existed in their current form. But as to the idea the effort and time are one and the same you should look to the origin of money in the West Coast of Africa. Where people originated currency as a way of appeasing that part of another's time/soul that went into an object during its making. For their word for time and soul is the same. And they treat religiously the ideal that one's effort/labor imparts into the product a portion of one's time/soul. And so the receiver of that product must make a payment/sacrifice to it in order to avoid being cursed.

The problem for impoverishment in the second world nations is one of perception of obligation. Any system will work if the people in it will make it work. The military system is a communistic system by nature, and one that is dictatorial. Community over emphasized leads to the quelling of individual initiative. It must be the obligation of the individuals to counter-balance that in their own daily effort, because the systemic energy is once sided. The West, and specifically my nation - the United States, has emphasized individuality and anti-community rhetoric to the point of nearly decimating all community and creating a base anti-society society (hence the Libertarian Movement as its fullest expression). Only by making up the difference, and people working at being neighbors, in neighborhoods, in the social structures which are inate to our species, can that imbalance be dealt with and energies not arise which will result in the end of my nation. That one should put forth effort to attain merrit is not new, and in fact is a common characteristic shared by our cousins Pan trog. We have not questioned that merit be a factor in attainment, but that those who seek extra-ordinary risk for the sake of extra-ordinary risk then undermine the value of their action by seeking rewards setting themselves apart from - and superior in soul to, their fellows. If the action is not suficient to the merit then bribery does not make it justified.

You forget to mention (although my own economic ideals linger somewhere between the American fixed economy and lassez-faire) that this is a computer game. Where not everything applies. Where there are rules and limits to exchange.

And do you not deny, that someone should get what someone earns.

Nemo the Capitalist · Oct 06, 2007, 01:57 AM // 01:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by MudBone

I have played since Propecies to GW:EN and have beat all 3 campaigns plus expansion

(lots more able to do) and have NEVER gotten an uber drop

, although I have gotten a few greens(nothing special) and perfect golds that I just salvaged the mods off of to sell/use. I'm sure it's because I have Henched(pre-NF) or Hero/Henched(post-NF) 90%+

of the quests/missions being the H/H share in the drops

.
This said I have seen no difference in the quality of drops in Hard Mode other than the assorted profession Tomes and it being unrealistically hard in some areas

.

at least u got a green 5000 hrs over 8 months and no greens only ectos :P

1 up and 2 down · Oct 06, 2007, 02:07 AM // 02:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fitz Rinley

A video game is about VIDEO. It is not that you are going to die it is that you are going to be the proper expression of the character when you do. The clothes make the man. If the character does not have the skins/appearance that make the entertainment for the player then that VIDEO game fails in the first and most basic category of VIDEO.

Video Game: An electronic or computerized game played by manipulating images on a video display or television screen.

MagmaRed · Oct 06, 2007, 03:02 AM // 03:02

Fitz... I have an idea. Join reality. You seem to live in a fantasy world, and play in what you want to be reality. You quoted me in your response, but failed to read what I had written. You also say you don't care about 'coolness', but you want specific looks for you characters. It may not be cool to other people, but you want those items because it is cool to you.

I think its GOOD that you want specific looks for your characters. I don't care one bit about WHY you want those looks. However, you want those looks handed to you, and although you may not agree with it, there is a reason those looks are not easy to get.

lutz · Oct 06, 2007, 03:19 AM // 03:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by CyberNigma

I'm not picking a side here but that's wrong. In the real world smarter work, not greater pays off. There are many people that work very hard for minimum wage whereas some guy that's gets lucky or plays it smart makes a ton of money.

Greater, in the sense of more productive, and more meaningful, not more amount (not calculated in hours, etc, but rather meaning).

Str0b0 · Oct 06, 2007, 05:03 AM // 05:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fitz Rinley

"cough up 100k plus 50 ecto "

Yeah right. I wish things still sold like that. The market ain't what it used to be buddy.

Oh and without quoting your whole rant about Robber Barons and Social Darwinism I would like to say one thing. The only reason Social Darwinism doesn't work is because we as human beings have eliminated the process of natural selection from our day to day lives. There was a time when people like you who are apparently unwilling to work for what they want were allowed to just sit without working until they starved to death. Unfortunately we "progressed" to the point where we coddled the weak and the deviant and said,"Poor baby,it's not your fault you can't function so we'll take care of you." Which is a humane but ultimately stupid way to go about things since it will eventually lead to the downfall of homo sapiens sapiens as a species. We'll continue to breed in weakness until eventually we're little more than ass scratching chimpanzees who play video games and still want stuff given to us for nothing.

redant751 · Oct 06, 2007, 05:36 AM // 05:36

This Game is like real life,you want Leet stuff you have to work for it.....

This thread this bores me I AM Out...

Oofus · Oct 06, 2007, 06:12 AM // 06:12

Wow, after all the changes ANet has made over the last few months, making max, gold, once rare skins, inscribable and so incredibly common and easy to get that 99% of all GW items are virtually worthless, and making damned near every skin available as a collector or green item with every possible combination of mods, there are STILL people crying that they want MORE handed to them for little to no effort. It never friggin end with some people. Almost everything in this game is so close to free it’s ridiculous, you people were given everything you wanted, at the expense of a large group of people who have lost a considerable amount of what they considered fun about this game, and you STILL WANT MORE. Amazing!

william1975 · Oct 06, 2007, 06:56 AM // 06:56

If it was a case that people playing in Hard Mode were able to get items that were better stats or higher armour then there may be a point to the OP.

However seeing as the game is designed to allow everyone to get to level 20 quickly, everyone have the same armour stats for their profession quickly, and everyone to have access to same stat weapons pretty early in the game, how can anyone complain that the casual player is hard done by?

Rare drops are rare, and expensive, however they have the same stats as any other weapon, and sometimes are not even maxed out. Elite armour is no different to any other armour. The only difference between these items and the common oes is a pretty skin, sometimes, and the difficuty in getting them.

They don;t affect gameplay however, so why whine about the inabilty to get them? I play hard mode and normal and i really dont notice a difference in the loot when I'm out with H/H. I usually end up witht the same monetary value, abliet sometimes gettign the odd gold and chests are better.

Only the solo farmer will notice a massive diference.

GlassShardx · Oct 06, 2007, 07:21 AM // 07:21

The simple fact that many people such as the OP need to realize is that the system is not perfect and there is no perfect RPG system. The OP wants items that suit how he thinks his character should look, but those items are in high demand, or are rare, so they cost gold, and he doesn't want to put in the time to get them himself or get the gold. Well yes, they could change the system, so every item was available from collectors, but then you're screwing over the other half of the population by removing any incentive to play after you beat a campaign. What would people do if they beat the game, and were handed every item they could possibly want with minimal effort? Would there be any real goals? What would the people who do play more then the casual gamer do? Farming for items is out, trying to obtain elite armor is out, farming for gold is out, all because all those things would be able to be done easily in a small amount of time in order to appease the casual players who want everything.

The system as it is is a great compromise and better solutiuon to the problems other games face. In other RPGs, the more time you put in, the better the items you get, and the easier the game becomes for you because of the increasing quality of the armor or items, which means casual players cannot accomplish alot of the game content because it is too hard to do without high quality items (For example, try Raiding or Pvping in WoW with white gear or stuff you buy from shops, you're at a huge disadvantage). GW compromises by making it so anyone, regardless of the amount of time you play can obtain the same functional level of equipment. For the people who do have more time to play and are more determined, there are rare skins and eye candy but in the end, everyone is on the same level. There is no real gap between casual and hardcore gamers because they're all capable of the same thing, the only differences are cosmetic, and even those cosmetic effects can be obtained with luck.

In the end though, complaining that hardcore gamers have an advantage and that you should have access to everything is just petty and childish. Its like complaining that the lottery is unfair because people who spend more time and money playing have better chances then people who spend minimal time or money. Get over it, that is simply how life is, there is no fair solution where everyone is happy.

Burning Blade · Oct 06, 2007, 07:52 AM // 07:52

I don't see any problem with HM having better rare drops than NM. However, I want the freaking loot scaling lifted. Its the stupid thing that make PvE boring to death.

cthulhu reborn · Oct 06, 2007, 08:11 AM // 08:11

Loot has always been a problem in GW since you can get equal quality items in pretty much any colour.
I have a winged shield, def 16, inscribable, req 8 tactics....it's blue.

Greens are now so cheap (mostly thanks to solo farming as they rarely drop for you in party set up) that it's not worth it anymore to get your gold and mod it since the "rare'' skins are plentyful and mods relatively expensive.

A forgotten sword costs 10k...+30hp for a sword costs at least that.

But the point of the game makers was that everybody, including the most casual players can get a sword that is req9, 20/20, +30hp max damage and that is the case.
Finish NF or factions or GWEN and you can pick one ....whether it's the sword, bow or whatever.
Anybody can get max defence armour. But to get some of the items you need to invest more time into it.
I would think that is a pretty good set up. The whole idea is that casual players are not at a statistical disadvantage due to equipment and this is how it is.
You want a perfect item? You need 10k or less these days. With some quests and mission rewards that is a very achievable goal for casual gamers.

Beyond that it is unfair to whine about people who got something for some efforts that you did not put in.

iridescentfyre · Oct 06, 2007, 10:10 AM // 10:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fitz Rinley

I do not sound "sophisticated" because I am a liar. I express what immediately comes to mind, and only that which is natural to my experience. You do not see false colored thinking in my penmanship.

You don't sound sophisticated at all. You sound artificial, like you're speaking in an unnecessary stilted way to try to put yourself above everyone else. Don't pat yourself on the back so hard, you may break your spine.

No, the game does not owe you anything. You said you've played for 3,686 hours and haven't been able to buy armor you "like?"... that begs the question, just what the hell have you been doing all that time? Assuming you've been playing for exactly two years, that's over one-fifth of that time! You can make so many hundreds of platinum in that length of time just by playing the game. I want to call you lazy, but I cannot possibly imagine what you could've been doing instead in such a long time that has apparently earned you so little money.

Messy · Oct 06, 2007, 02:16 PM // 14:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fitz Rinley

One of the problems I have with the Loot Scaling and all decent drops shipped to Hard Mode and Elite Areas breaks the promise GW is supposed to also be for casual gamers. Hard Mode/Elite players are supposed to be playing Hard Mode and Elite areas because they want something challenging - not because they want to define themselves as worth more than casual players. Nor should hard mode/elite players be holding highend items in ransom from casual players saying, "cough up 100k plus 50 ecto or your just not worthy of my effort."

GW is for casual players as well as for those not-so-casual.

Don't make assumptions about how and why HM/Elite players are supposed to be playing hard mode. Some play for the challenge, some play for the thrill, many play for the drops. I have played GW for many hours, I am comfortable with HM, I don't consider myself an Elite player, that's just a snob term. Am I holding elite weapons? yes!! All the hours I have put in the game have resulted in some very nice drops.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fitz Rinley

except my Leg Surv and my LDoA condidates who I only play when I feel like being board to death with the stupidity required for those titles).

if it's stupid.... why are you doing it???? Why put yourself through such torture to achieve a cyber title which basically is some little pixels on your screen spelling a couple of words?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fitz Rinley

But those who want to casually play the game should never have been punished because they did not want to play hard mode.

who punished you??? Is somebody there forcing you to turn your computer on, open GW, play this game, go after stupid titles, and they punish you because you don't want to click on HM? My advise is, when they are not looking, close the game and try something else.